Bashful: Great, I’m spared 4 months of analysis and thinking. Nigel Farage, George Galloway, and Boris Johnson all think we should leave the EU. That’s me for staying in!!
Doc: IDS, Gove, etc, want to take us out, so they can rip away the rest of our human rights, make us all slaves, and kill off the rest of us who are ill, old and disabled. Fear politics all over again. Yet another reason to stay in.
Happy: Despite their policies in UK which I disagree with, I am afraid to say that I agree with them for not being part of EU. It may not necessarily be for the same reasons but ultimately I’m out!
Bashful: Why do you want to leave, Happy?
Sneezy: Why would you want to stay, Bashful?
Bashful: Ok. Very short answer.
Bashful: Original founders of EU were motivated by a desire to avoid a third world war starting in Europe. Coincidentally this is the 100th anniversary of the battle of Verdun which only involved the French and Germans. I think that motive is still a strong fundamental. Economy: It makes sense to me to stay in the biggest trading group in the world. There may be petty bureaucracies but that applies everywhere and there is a general acceptance that these can be improved.
Bashful: Wales has received some benefit from the EU financially but it is also encouraging to be part of a group that contains other small nations with minority languages who share some of our concerns rather than being dominated by our monoglot neighbor. This may be romantic but I emotionally like the idea and practice of travelling more freely through Europe – we took the train from Kings Cross to Barcelona via Paris. Fab! I’m Welsh, I’m British and I’m European. I’m an internationalist. Finally the problems that face Europe as a whole will be better dealt with if the UK remains a member.
Sneezy: World War maybe, but there are still wars going on all over the world. Not clear pulling out will change things. Biggest trading group? In decline! Also we will still be trading just as other non EU countries can. The EU also needs to trade with us. “Petty bureaucracies” – are you having a laugh calling the EU that??? Yes CAN be improved BUT hasn’t been in years and won’t be. Agree, Wales desperately needs to stay in. Had more than “some benefit”. Huge EU grants help to prop up a weak economy. You’re worried about being dominated by a monoglot neighbour but not a federational bunch of bureaucrats? Are the Swiss finding it difficult to move “freely” through Europe then?
Bashful: It’s a tough call, and I can see both sides but I think EUROPE is truly a greater vision than the alternative. And Visions don’t come easy!
Sneezy: Agree Bashful, but they need to go to Specsavers!
Happy: There are a few reasons Bashful for wanting to leave (too many to type with thumbs on a phone so I’m not going to go into detail on here but to try to offer an answer for you… I believe the system that is currently being used by the EU is not workable and the system that is needed to make it workable is not acceptable to the main established countries, including GB. Listening to DC when he announced deal, I could see nothing in what he said that actually made it beneficial to remain in EU with the changes being proposed, they are very superficial. We could have all of those things he announced if we left EU and have a greater say over all the issues the deal covers.
Happy: We will obviously still have a close relationship with the other main countries and will obviously continue to share info regarding terrorist groups/threats and national safety. There are several scaremongers saying it will be a complete break from everything but the reality is the relationship that currently exists will still remain. Also The EU obviously want us to stay as it strengthens the EU with GB in where as it weakens the EU if we leave. There are several countries such as Germany and France who would not have the current system that exists but are not able to exit due to the agreements they made. There you go, a few things to think about
Bashful: just pure speculation, Happy. No one knows what lies ahead if we leave.
Happy: You may say so Bashful! ? Anyway, to answer your ‘non-point’…when I left RBC I still kept in contact and relationship with certain folk. My relationship with some is naturally better than others but nonetheless my relationships remain. When I left Manchester for Cardiff the same thing applied. Now relationships may change for better or worse, grow closer with some and grows apart with others but the relationship remain. By leaving the EU we are not going to cut off all ties with Europe as if they don’t exist or as if there has been no history between us for the last 60yrs. That’s worse than a sudden case of amnesia. For the sake of national security we need to share intelligence with various agencies / governments but we don’t need to be part of the EU for that to continue. That relationship will remain whether we are in or out. You can take that as a given. If you think we will become hermits and lock ourselves away you are very wrong. There will be some changes regarding some funding and laws that Europe has introduced for our benefit over the years and there will possibly be some teething problems but these won’t be difficult to resolve. We are a sovereign land and have been established for centuries…your ‘pure speculation’ comment only plays on the fear element of the in campaign and doesn’t actually embrace the topic. You can pull that out with every question thus avoiding answering difficult questions and also avoids engaging in proper debate. It’s a cheap tactic that politicians will use far too often during this debate. I encourage you not to copy their lead but to consider the facts and reason wisely not just base your decision based on who stands for which side.
Sleepy: It wasn’t difficult to travel before, just the odd border check, which nowadays can only be a blessing. Blood pressure goes up every time they pass another stupid law. We are the second biggest contributor and they treated the re negotiation with such arrogance and disdain. I do not want our finances governed by Poland’s prime minister. I’m out.
Dopey: If corruption, greed and inefficiency are reasons to shut down the European project then we might as well shut down governments, corporations and humans in general across the entire planet.
Happy: For the record, I am happy to engage in the topic and willing for my mind to be changed, however, given my position as it stands is to vote out on the basis that what we have currently in EU has been built on broken foundations, it may be difficult for me to change my mind. These foundations are not going to be dealt with ever and the idea that the public has for voting ‘in’ on the idealistic notion that things can change is simply not accurate. That is not the deal being proposed by DC or Europe. It simply won’t happen. The best of both worlds idea that people like is not on the table and it is in my opinion currently dangerous to make this assumption.
Grumpy: One thing that does accrue from being part of the European is access to a greater spread of expertise in developing legislation. It’s true that the process can be time consuming but the vast majority doesn’t disadvantage the UK. What they do bring is some consistent standards across the community and agreed ways to deal with disputes.
Key to Abbreviations:
EU: European Union, formerly known as the Common Market
BREXIT: British Exit from the European Union
IDS: Ian Duncan-Smith, British Government Minister
Gove: Michael Gove, British Government Minister
UK: United Kingdom
Fab: Fabulous
GB: Great Britain
DC: David Cameron, British Prime Minister
RBC: Royal Bank of China
